revelation today
Eric Nelson wrote a great documentary regarding his truth crisis and all the major issues with the LDS church. One of the issues he wrote about beautifully was this topic of revelation today, and people receiving revelation saying that their church is the only true church on the earth. This is not unique to the LDS church. Here are HIS words...
"The Church teaches that we can obtain knowledge and truth through the power of the Holy Ghost, which is typically associated with certain feelings and sensations. However, the feelings typically associated with the Holy Ghost are felt by people of all different backgrounds in daily life. Many religious and non-religious individuals feel “spiritual” feelings (or get goosebumps, a lump in their throat, or teary-eyed, etc.) while watching fictional movies, listening to music, reading novels, or enjoying a hike. Likewise, most atheists would acknowledge feeling “tingling, warm sensations” in many activities.
But if God sends certain feelings and emotions to help individuals decipher truth, Mormons should be the only people who feel the Holy Ghost in determining whether their Church is true. However, this is simply not the case. People from all religions report having the same feelings that witness to them that their particular religion, beliefs, or church is true. In fact, members of other faiths often follow virtually the same method of finding truth as members of the LDS church. Even so, these non-members gain testimonies of their own church based, in large part, on the same spiritual feelings LDS members feel about their church. Obviously, not all religions can be right. And it seems more than a bit far-fetched to believe that only members of the LDS Church, who constitute a miniscule portion of the world’s population, are able to accurately use their feelings to decipher truth, spiritual or otherwise.
For example, this video contains the testimonies of individuals from 16 different religions all of whom believe God has told them through the spirit that they belong to God’s one true church. Many of these individuals testify that they know God is speaking to them when they feel emotions that are stronger or different than the typical emotions they feel on a day-to-day basis. Therefore, they know these feelings and insights are from God as opposed to regular feelings or emotions. However, how can all these individuals experience the same feelings and emotions about their respective churches that Mormons feel about the LDS Church?"
MY THOUGHT: When Joseph Smith was essentially a nobody at the time, and he was "called" to be a prophet of god, who's to say someone else claiming to be a prophet receiving revelation from god today isn't true? I've done lots of praying over the months, and I've not received any sort of confirmation that Joseph Smith was the only one true prophet that could receive direct revelation from God at the time. How is this any different than Joseph Smith at the time claiming that he saw God and Jesus and was called to be a prophet? People obviously believed him. I personally just have a hard time saying or believing that only Joseph Smith was the one called of God, and nobody else has been called or can receive revelation like Joseph did.
For example, there’s a guy named Denver Snuffer. He is some old dude that was excommunicated from the LDS church. But apparently a lot of people like what he has to say. He did a series of lectures starting in Boise and ending in Utah I believe. He would give a lecture about a topic one day, then go to a different location and then give another talk. They’re known as “The Boise Lecture” or “The Ogden Lecture”. He also recently organized a small renewal movement and organized a wave of rebaptisms, where members of the church have to get “re-baptized”, but not sure why. He does not intend to start a new church.
There is another guy named John Dehlin. He started a podcast website called Mormon Stories Podcast. He does podcasts about difficult and controversial topics in Mormon history. He’s pretty radical and liberal in his thinking of gay marriage, women in the priesthood; the priesthood wasn’t officially restored back to the earth, etc. He was told by his stake president that he had to take down his controversial podcasts from the internet or he would be excommunicated for apostasy. He did not take them down, so he was officially excommunicated.
Another person named Kate Kelly. She started an organization called “Ordain women”. She and others feel that women are treated unfairly in the church and feel that they should be given the priesthood just like the men. Recently over 500 women tried to gain entry into the Priesthood session of General Conference. All of them were denied entry. While I disagree with some of what they do, I do agree with some of their points. For example this was interesting…
"We have 122 General Authorities, only 9 positions are held by women in auxiliary capacities, all 9 are presided over by men"
I also took this from Kate's website...
The point I am trying to make is this… when Joseph Smith was however young he was at the time of “religious upheaval”, he was told to join no other churches by God and Jesus Christ. He received revelation directly from god when others around the world were supposedly receiving their own revelations from god (see Rough Stone Rolling book for more examples).
Today, we’re told “follow the prophet, you’ll never go astray”. In another section of the website, I talked about Brigham Young implementing the policy that blacks can’t hold the priesthood. I know this isn’t exactly leading the church astray, but NOW the church says that this policy wasn’t warranted, and not correct. So the prophet might not lead us astray, but who’s to say a different person can’t receive direct revelation on behalf of a group? Only the prophet can receive revelation for a large group, meaning the church? I feel like this whole “follow the prophets, they’ll NEVER lead you astray” is putting too much faith in a single person. We’re supposed to follow God, not man! Prophets are men too. They screw up, just like Brigham Young did. I feel like Brigham was influenced by racism that was prevalent in society at the time. It was common to have slaves during that time period. Maybe he just acted on his own feelings instead of gods. But if that were the case, why did all the other following prophets perpetuate the ban?
When Joseph Smith was “Called by God” to be a prophet, he was the only one authorized to receive revelation. I am not sure if this was HIS design, or God’s design. There’s a great historical explanation about this in “Rough Stone Rolling” Whenever the people would question something, Joseph would go to the lord, and a “revelation” would be received. For example, when the men would all sit around the meetings chewing tobacco, Emma asked Joseph if it’s the right thing to do. Lo and behold, He received a revelation about not smoking or drinking. If they had a question about something, he would ask the lord, and a revelation would be given to him.
Now applying that to today, people (not me) care and think that women should have the priesthood. How come someone can’t go to the lord and receive revelation about it? Does it HAVE to be the prophet? Joseph was a nobody when he received revelation. It’s hard for me to understand that revelation has stopped since the last revelation that was given (probably the end of blacks and the priesthood). We believe in revelation, that’s what the church is all about. So how come we never receive new revelation today? Most people will say... “We’re just not ready for it”, or “we don’t use what we’ve got”, or "we have the prophet's words every conference". Well I don’t buy these excuses. I would argue that when the prophet stands up during conference and speaks, he never prophecies, or reveals anything new, he just tells fun and uplifting spiritual stories. I couldn't tell you when the last revelation for the church was received.
"The Church teaches that we can obtain knowledge and truth through the power of the Holy Ghost, which is typically associated with certain feelings and sensations. However, the feelings typically associated with the Holy Ghost are felt by people of all different backgrounds in daily life. Many religious and non-religious individuals feel “spiritual” feelings (or get goosebumps, a lump in their throat, or teary-eyed, etc.) while watching fictional movies, listening to music, reading novels, or enjoying a hike. Likewise, most atheists would acknowledge feeling “tingling, warm sensations” in many activities.
But if God sends certain feelings and emotions to help individuals decipher truth, Mormons should be the only people who feel the Holy Ghost in determining whether their Church is true. However, this is simply not the case. People from all religions report having the same feelings that witness to them that their particular religion, beliefs, or church is true. In fact, members of other faiths often follow virtually the same method of finding truth as members of the LDS church. Even so, these non-members gain testimonies of their own church based, in large part, on the same spiritual feelings LDS members feel about their church. Obviously, not all religions can be right. And it seems more than a bit far-fetched to believe that only members of the LDS Church, who constitute a miniscule portion of the world’s population, are able to accurately use their feelings to decipher truth, spiritual or otherwise.
For example, this video contains the testimonies of individuals from 16 different religions all of whom believe God has told them through the spirit that they belong to God’s one true church. Many of these individuals testify that they know God is speaking to them when they feel emotions that are stronger or different than the typical emotions they feel on a day-to-day basis. Therefore, they know these feelings and insights are from God as opposed to regular feelings or emotions. However, how can all these individuals experience the same feelings and emotions about their respective churches that Mormons feel about the LDS Church?"
MY THOUGHT: When Joseph Smith was essentially a nobody at the time, and he was "called" to be a prophet of god, who's to say someone else claiming to be a prophet receiving revelation from god today isn't true? I've done lots of praying over the months, and I've not received any sort of confirmation that Joseph Smith was the only one true prophet that could receive direct revelation from God at the time. How is this any different than Joseph Smith at the time claiming that he saw God and Jesus and was called to be a prophet? People obviously believed him. I personally just have a hard time saying or believing that only Joseph Smith was the one called of God, and nobody else has been called or can receive revelation like Joseph did.
For example, there’s a guy named Denver Snuffer. He is some old dude that was excommunicated from the LDS church. But apparently a lot of people like what he has to say. He did a series of lectures starting in Boise and ending in Utah I believe. He would give a lecture about a topic one day, then go to a different location and then give another talk. They’re known as “The Boise Lecture” or “The Ogden Lecture”. He also recently organized a small renewal movement and organized a wave of rebaptisms, where members of the church have to get “re-baptized”, but not sure why. He does not intend to start a new church.
There is another guy named John Dehlin. He started a podcast website called Mormon Stories Podcast. He does podcasts about difficult and controversial topics in Mormon history. He’s pretty radical and liberal in his thinking of gay marriage, women in the priesthood; the priesthood wasn’t officially restored back to the earth, etc. He was told by his stake president that he had to take down his controversial podcasts from the internet or he would be excommunicated for apostasy. He did not take them down, so he was officially excommunicated.
Another person named Kate Kelly. She started an organization called “Ordain women”. She and others feel that women are treated unfairly in the church and feel that they should be given the priesthood just like the men. Recently over 500 women tried to gain entry into the Priesthood session of General Conference. All of them were denied entry. While I disagree with some of what they do, I do agree with some of their points. For example this was interesting…
"We have 122 General Authorities, only 9 positions are held by women in auxiliary capacities, all 9 are presided over by men"
I also took this from Kate's website...
- I feel unequal when women have less prominent, prestigious, and public roles in the church, even before and after childrearing years
- I feel unequal when males handle 100% of the church finances
- I feel unequal when I am taught at church that my husband presides in my family, he is the head, and all things being equal, he has the final say
- I feel unequal when I realize that at church all men have the final say. Good leaders might consult with female auxiliary leaders, but ultimately even after being called to a position via inspiration, men still make the final decisions. (I’ve seen this first hand in the bishopric)
- I feel unequal when fathers and mothers are encouraged to fulfill primary roles to provide and nurture, but only the fathers are given the freedom to seek out the best way for them to provide, whereas, mothers are told the best way for them to nurture—to be stay at home moms
- I feel unequal because church disciplinary courts are made up of solely men and there are no female voices in the very sensitive matters of church discipline
- I feel unequal when women have to talk to men about their sins, especially sexual ones, and have no other church sanctioned options. (I really don’t like this, especially for my daughter growing up)
- I feel unequal when women don’t pray in General Conference and usually only give 2 or 3 of the many talks
- I feel unequal when female employees of the Church Educational System and temple ordinance workers are no longer allowed to keep their positions after they have children
The point I am trying to make is this… when Joseph Smith was however young he was at the time of “religious upheaval”, he was told to join no other churches by God and Jesus Christ. He received revelation directly from god when others around the world were supposedly receiving their own revelations from god (see Rough Stone Rolling book for more examples).
Today, we’re told “follow the prophet, you’ll never go astray”. In another section of the website, I talked about Brigham Young implementing the policy that blacks can’t hold the priesthood. I know this isn’t exactly leading the church astray, but NOW the church says that this policy wasn’t warranted, and not correct. So the prophet might not lead us astray, but who’s to say a different person can’t receive direct revelation on behalf of a group? Only the prophet can receive revelation for a large group, meaning the church? I feel like this whole “follow the prophets, they’ll NEVER lead you astray” is putting too much faith in a single person. We’re supposed to follow God, not man! Prophets are men too. They screw up, just like Brigham Young did. I feel like Brigham was influenced by racism that was prevalent in society at the time. It was common to have slaves during that time period. Maybe he just acted on his own feelings instead of gods. But if that were the case, why did all the other following prophets perpetuate the ban?
When Joseph Smith was “Called by God” to be a prophet, he was the only one authorized to receive revelation. I am not sure if this was HIS design, or God’s design. There’s a great historical explanation about this in “Rough Stone Rolling” Whenever the people would question something, Joseph would go to the lord, and a “revelation” would be received. For example, when the men would all sit around the meetings chewing tobacco, Emma asked Joseph if it’s the right thing to do. Lo and behold, He received a revelation about not smoking or drinking. If they had a question about something, he would ask the lord, and a revelation would be given to him.
Now applying that to today, people (not me) care and think that women should have the priesthood. How come someone can’t go to the lord and receive revelation about it? Does it HAVE to be the prophet? Joseph was a nobody when he received revelation. It’s hard for me to understand that revelation has stopped since the last revelation that was given (probably the end of blacks and the priesthood). We believe in revelation, that’s what the church is all about. So how come we never receive new revelation today? Most people will say... “We’re just not ready for it”, or “we don’t use what we’ve got”, or "we have the prophet's words every conference". Well I don’t buy these excuses. I would argue that when the prophet stands up during conference and speaks, he never prophecies, or reveals anything new, he just tells fun and uplifting spiritual stories. I couldn't tell you when the last revelation for the church was received.
REFERENCES
- http://denversnuffer.com/
- http://mormonstories.org/
- http://ordainwomen.org/
- https://mormonbandwagon.com/eric_n/ltc13-testimony-truth-holy-ghost/
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go&sns=em
- https://mormonbandwagon.com/eric_n/leaving-the-church/